Advice to get dealer to replace EV battery under warranty

[dlinkA3]

I have a 2016 A3 etron with 46000 miles. I would originally get 21 to 22 mile range displayed when fully charged. Now I get 15 displayed when fully charged. I just had my dealership in Chattanooga test my battery and it showed no defects. Consequently they will not replace my battery. They say that it is normal degradation and that the battery wears out over time just as an engine does. My biggest pet peeve is the ICE kicking in when going up a hill with anywhere from 8-10 miles of range left on display. Then I have to wait for it to let me choose EV driving again and it takes a while. I love the car, but the battery range is way too short. I don’t think the new Q5 hybrid is much better. Makes me want to look at a Tesla for the money, except I love that German car feel!!

We have our 2017 A3 Sportback e-tron AND a 2018 Tesla Model 3 long range. We like the Audi, but love our Tesla. It drives much better than the Audi and its software works way better than the antiquated software in our Audi. We also receive over the air firmware and software updates regularly on our Tesla, every couple months or so. We have NEVER received an update for our Audi, but it would never have been over the air anyway. The Audi A3 e-tron Connect software, which went belly up over 3 years ago (due to cheap and dated 3G connectivity parts) had its last update in 2016, before we even purchased our Audi. There was NEVER a software update for Audi Connect since 2016, but now it doesn't matter anyway, since it won't work.

We are not interested in any of the Q models. We prefer sedans and station wagons, rather than top heavy taller SUVs.

If you have never driven a Tesla Model 3 (or even a Model Y if you like the taller version vehicles), you should really do so. Go to an Electric Vehicle Association event which has a Ride and Drive. Speak with actual owners (since they know much more than any automotive dealership salespeople ever have known or understood about the vehicles they sell) and get the truth about ownership. We drove our 2018 Model 3 8,840 cross-country in Autumn of 2022 and were very happy with our car. We would never do that with our Audi A3 Sportback e-tron, nor with an internal combustion engine vehicle. All our charging was at Tesla Superchargers (not one was out of order) and at 1/3 of the hotels where we stay using their free destination chargers. Wake up in the morning and fully charged, just like at home. Try that with a gasoline or diesel vehicle.

We are NEVER going back to ICEs. We are battery electric from now on.

 

[cmc]

I seem to recall that the periodic ICE running has something to do with fuel pressure build up in the tank.... Anyway if one buys this car with the expectation that it will mimic an EV one would be setting oneself up for disappointment. For me the appreciation is in how well they integrated the ICE and the EV parts of the car and yes with a 40 mile commute, the ICE runs all the time.

 

[Fcwdmdpedo]

Have also experienced forced ICE start several times, no clear pattern when. Be careful about not using ICE regularly. 1. Dealer can tell and may void any remaining ICE related warranties or repair obligations. I had a warning from dealer after my first year when less than 400 km ICE on total of 4,000 km. 2. Gasoline goes stale. You need to use a stabilizer if you don't use it within 3-6 months. That can extend it to 24 months. 3. The weird Audi software that governs charging of the 12 volt battery is also in play. The dealer suggested that you need to use ICE to charge the 12 volt battery, which is not technically true since it is supposed to be charged by the high voltage battery, but there is definitely some correlation between ICE use and proper maintenance of the 12 volt. I'll leave that point for more technically savvy folks to explain. I use a trickle charger for the 12 volt just to be safe when not using ICE for a while, already had one dead 12 volt.

Appreciate the response. I use ICE regularly because I don’t have enough range for just EV. Have already had to replace the 12 Volt battery 2-3 years ago. By the way that was around $500 at dealer. Apparently mostly labor due to its location. I can understand if your EV range is 2-3 miles but not if you have plenty of EV range left. I sort of think it has something to do with the software updates. Let’s face it, the 2016 A3 Etron was Audi and VW’s first attempt into EV. Wonder how much their newer models have improved.

 

[Fcwdmdpedo]

We have our 2017 A3 Sportback e-tron AND a 2018 Tesla Model 3 long range. We like the Audi, but love our Tesla. It drives much better than the Audi and its software works way better than the antiquated software in our Audi. We also receive over the air firmware and software updates regularly on our Tesla, every couple months or so. We have NEVER received an update for our Audi, but it would never have been over the air anyway. The Audi A3 e-tron Connect software, which went belly up over 3 years ago (due to cheap and dated 3G connectivity parts) had its last update in 2016, before we even purchased our Audi. There was NEVER a software update for Audi Connect since 2016, but now it doesn't matter anyway, since it won't work.

We are not interested in any of the Q models. We prefer sedans and station wagons, rather than top heavy taller SUVs.

If you have never driven a Tesla Model 3 (or even a Model Y if you like the taller version vehicles), you should really do so. Go to an Electric Vehicle Association event which has a Ride and Drive. Speak with actual owners (since they know much more than any automotive dealership salespeople ever have known or understood about the vehicles they sell) and get the truth about ownership. We drove our 2018 Model 3 8,840 cross-country in Autumn of 2022 and were very happy with our car. We would never do that with our Audi A3 Sportback e-tron, nor with an internal combustion engine vehicle. All our charging was at Tesla Superchargers (not one was out of order) and at 1/3 of the hotels where we stay using their free destination chargers. Wake up in the morning and fully charged, just like at home. Try that with a gasoline or diesel vehicle.

We are NEVER going back to ICEs. We are battery electric from now on.

Good to hear. My son has a new Tesla Y that he loves, especially for around town. I drove it and it’s amazing. I think it’s the way to go. Either go all ICE or all EV.

 

[GolfCartDriver]

We bought our 2018 e-Tron because the 2018 Tesla 3 failed on the test drive. First, some of the drive assist features would not work, and then it just stopped completely - fortunately we were able to coast safely to the shoulder, Then, it wouldn't restart. We watched the Tesla salesperson struggle for 10 minutes attempting to get it going before calling a tow. She said it happened a few times. I hope that the Tesla is more reliable now.

We have had a few software updates on the e-Tron, nothing earth shattering and, like commenters on other threads, have been suspicious that some of the updates affected range.

I agree with cmc's comment above that the ICE/EV integration is excellent.

In my view, the e-Tron is a useful city vehicle, but not really a long distance cruiser. Was tiring on a long drive to and from Ohio (300km/200miles each way), although excellent on fuel. On the positive side, we never have range anxiety on our trips - 800km/500miles total is normal - and we can always find a gas station.

Anyway, plug in hybrids are good enough for us until dreams of ubiquitous charging infrastructure / extremely fast charging / swappable batteries become reality.

 

[cmc]

I wanted to add additional reasons why I chose a PHEV instead of pure EV.. The well known issues of range anxiety/unreliable/inconvenient charging etc. I have 465 miles range with both tanks full and the car is tiny and light compared to everything else. And when it gets really really cold in the winter I can opt to run it on ICE and get free heating. No fuming over losing half your range if you need to defrost your windshield... All of these advantages are seldom mentioned. In my mind it has the best of both worlds. Only those who expect it to be a full EV come up disappointed because the battery is too small.

 

[cmc]

The other trend that didn't make any sense to me is the fussing over the volume of the front trunk on EVs... The A3 has a tiny rear trunk with fold down seats. Most of the time my trunk is empty... How many EVs have you seen driving around so full that they had to overflow into the front trunk? I'm laughing at the fuss they make. Oh if you fill an EV to the brim with junk how is that going to impact its range now? Also I like the ability to coast while most others are screaming about one pedal driving... Well we are grateful for variety....

 

[Levetron]

We bought our 2018 e-Tron because the 2018 Tesla 3 failed on the test drive. First, some of the drive assist features would not work, and then it just stopped completely - fortunately we were able to coast safely to the shoulder, Then, it wouldn't restart. We watched the Tesla salesperson struggle for 10 minutes attempting to get it going before calling a tow. She said it happened a few times. I hope that the Tesla is more reliable now.

We have had a few software updates on the e-Tron, nothing earth shattering and, like commenters on other threads, have been suspicious that some of the updates affected range.

I agree with cmc's comment above that the ICE/EV integration is excellent.

In my view, the e-Tron is a useful city vehicle, but not really a long distance cruiser. Was tiring on a long drive to and from Ohio (300km/200miles each way), although excellent on fuel. On the positive side, we never have range anxiety on our trips - 800km/500miles total is normal - and we can always find a gas station.

Anyway, plug in hybrids are good enough for us until dreams of ubiquitous charging infrastructure / extremely fast charging / swappable batteries become reality.

You got the pros and cons exactly right. Daily errands can be done with the A3 in electric mode. Long distance - use the ICE with zero range anxiety. We also have an EV and I took if for a nearly 2000-mile road trip. Once I was almost stranded at a station with 9% battery left in the middle of nowhere because the station was listed already but not online yet. And that week a lot of stations were in some maintenance mode charging at slower speeds so it felt like I spent my whole life waiting to get charged. There is a LOT to figure out about the EV infrastructure!

 

[LegacEtron]

In the interest of towing this thread back to the original topic, I’ll add my experience. My 2017 (~67K miles) is at the dealer awaiting a high-voltage battery replacement. It was doing all the stuff reported higher in this thread, including never charging above 75% and jumping to Battery Hold with 2 bars left on the battery if I was on the highway. I had been asking for them to check the charging ever since the battery manager update was performed several years ago.

This time I spent just over a week logging the actual range from a full charge to the ICE kicking on. All of my trips that week were without climate control or seat heaters and the MMI screen lowered while in EV mode. I averaged 7.8 miles of range during that time, as little as 5 on the coldest days (in the low 30s), and the battery took no more than 4,4 kwh each time before the car stopped drawing power. Besides a spreadsheet of those trips, I gave them screenshots from my charging app for my charge sessions. I asked for a battery diagnostic when I made the appointment. It took about a week before they notified me that battery needed replacement.

 

[SFkjeld]

In the interest of towing this thread back to the original topic, I’ll add my experience. My 2017 (~67K miles) is at the dealer awaiting a high-voltage battery replacement. It was doing all the stuff reported higher in this thread, including never charging above 75% and jumping to Battery Hold with 2 bars left on the battery if I was on the highway. I had been asking for them to check the charging ever since the battery manager update was performed several years ago.

This time I spent just over a week logging the actual range from a full charge to the ICE kicking on. All of my trips that week were without climate control or seat heaters and the MMI screen lowered while in EV mode. I averaged 7.8 miles of range during that time, as little as 5 on the coldest days (in the low 30s), and the battery took no more than 4,4 kwh each time before the car stopped drawing power. Besides a spreadsheet of those trips, I gave them screenshots from my charging app for my charge sessions. I asked for a battery diagnostic when I made the appointment. It took about a week before they notified me that battery needed replacement.

Interesting. Thanks for posting. So was your battery replaced under warranty? If so, do you think all the documentation you provided was necessary to have it covered under warranty? My 2017 is not exhibiting any of those EV range symptoms you had, but we are only at 50k miles. Just wondering if it can go bad suddenly and how I can get Audi to cover it if it does.

 

[Silentbob]

Interesting. Thanks for posting. So was your battery replaced under warranty? If so, do you think all the documentation you provided was necessary to have it covered under warranty? My 2017 is not exhibiting any of those EV range symptoms you had, but we are only at 50k miles. Just wondering if it can go bad suddenly and how I can get Audi to cover it if it does.

shouldnt need any documentation for that battery recall (at least for 2016, unsure about the others)

the recall has them check the battery in the shop (under warranty)
if it leaked, then they replace it with new battery and better housing. (what they did on mine)
if it's fine then they just replace the sealing mount

that's my understanding at least

 

[LegacEtron]

So was your battery replaced under warranty? If so, do you think all the documentation you provided was necessary to have it covered under warranty?

I haven’t picked it up yet, but I anticipate that this will be under warranty. When I checked the car in, my service rep told me he’d checked the dates and mileage and my battery was still under warranty. (I’m also still under the additional AudiCare warranty I bought,) I don’t know if the documentation was necessary but I had asked them to test the battery because it wasn’t fully charging the last three times it was in for service and they just blew it off until I showed up with receipts this time.

 

[karen]

I haven’t picked it up yet, but I anticipate that this will be under warranty. When I checked the car in, my service rep told me he’d checked the dates and mileage and my battery was still under warranty. (I’m also still under the additional AudiCare warranty I bought,) I don’t know if the documentation was necessary but I had asked them to test the battery because it wasn’t fully charging the last three times it was in for service and they just blew it off until I showed up with receipts this time.

What level was it charging to? What is the full charge capacity on your battery? Could I ask how old your car is, what year?

 

[SFkjeld]

After owning our e-tron since 2017, we just started charging at 220V. It’s really wonderful that we charge so quickly now. But we seem to be getting a few miles less on a full charge. I wonder if it’s related. It also has me worrying about whether we are taxing the battery charging at 220V, so that it wears out sooner.

 

[LegacEtron]

What level was it charging to? What is the full charge capacity on your battery? Could I ask how old your car is, what year?

Again, it’s a 2017 with ~67K miles and was charging to 6 of 8 bars on the dash gauge, occasionally only 5. My charger app tells me an empty battery was taking no more than 4.4 kWh before the car stopped drawing current, often closer to 4. The original battery capacity was 8.8 kWh, according to Audi. I bought the car CPO and don’t remember what its capacity was when I got it, but my range feels like it’s halved; I used to be able to make it home from work without kicking on the ICE and now I frequently can’t quite make it there in the morning on battery, alone.

 

[karen]

My vehicle (2018) has been charging around 5.6kwh to 6.04kwh as of late. I will check to see when spring arrives to see what the charging capacity is then.

 

[Silentbob]

After owning our e-tron since 2017, we just started charging at 220V. It’s really wonderful that we charge so quickly now. But we seem to be getting a few miles less on a full charge. I wonder if it’s related. It also has me worrying about whether we are taxing the battery charging at 220V, so that it wears out sooner.

I think that's how it works for my cell phone as well !
Slower charge = longer mileage.

 

[bros225]

My vehicle (2018) has been charging around 5.6kwh to 6.04kwh as of late. I will check to see when spring arrives to see what the charging capacity is then.

I have a 2018 with 25K miles. When new it averaged 6.8kwh to charge, which equated to an average of 15 miles. Now it averages 5.8kwh and I get around 14 miles. My battery-hold mode (standard hybrid) mileage is around 36mpg. Hybrid mode (hybrid using stored battery power) mileage varies greatly based on the driving conditions. It does appear that the capacity of the battery is 8.8kwh. I suppose that makes sense if you assume that a certain percentage (in this case 2kwh) of the battery is reserved to enable standard hybrid driving (battery-hold mode). I.e. the battery will never discharge fully.

 

[hunter]

• i do not think that is correct. 8.8kWh should be the usable capacity, leaving some for hybrid operation. When charging capacity falls below 70% of 8.8kwh = 6.2kwh, the battery is a candidate for replacement. Here, 70% is a guess. Audi won't say what the actual number is.
• Great that many drivers are reporting kwh of charging capacity. That's so much more useful than miles of range, which has so much variation [temp, speed, hvac...] . It would also be great if drivers with fresh battery could report their charging capacity in kwh, to confirm the 8.8kwh.
• Is kwh available from the factory supplied charger, or just some others? which?

 

[hunter]

I think that's how it works for my cell phone as well !
Slower charge = longer mileage.

even at level2 [220v] charging, its limited to a relative low charge acceptance rate [3.3kw] which is not really fast charging.
remember that this PHEV is designed to be fully charged and discharged every day, so they [should] have designed the battery margins for this use.